WOW Reads: TRAP Considers Disability Experiences in Literature

Join the Worlds of Words Teen Reading Ambassadors as we discuss disability experiences in K-12 literature.

Books mentioned:
Red Apple (picturebook), by Tadahiro Ogawa
Flutter Forest (picturebook), concept by Colette Pelt
Black Book of Colors (picturebook), by Menena Cottin and Rosana Faria
You Started It (YA), by Jackie Khalilieh
Where You See Yourself (YA) by Claire Forrest
Disability Visibility (YA), edited by Alice Wong
Darius the Great Is Not Okay (YA), by Adib Khorram
Waking Ben Doldrums (picturebook), by Heather Smith and Byron Eggenschwiler
Breathe and Count Back from Ten (YA), by Natalia Sylvester
Incredible Dogs (picturebook from Chile, not Spain), by Mariajose Creixell Moya and Catalina Fuenzalida

TRAP includes disabled and non-disabled people. Those who identify as disabled are clear that their disability is not their personality. The same is true of the characters we met. We discuss relationships, desire for independence, body image, acceptance and honesty.

We also share accessible characteristics of books that include dyslexic fonts, braille, textured illustrations, formats and bindings, details that enhance side-by-side reading and scented pages, all of which make reading a more immersive experience. We took inspiration from IBBY’s Outstanding Books for Children with Disabilities 2025 list.

If you would like a copy of our ‘zine response to these books, send a 6.5 X 9.5 self-addressed, stamped envelope (SASE - flat rate for under 2 oz.) to: Worlds of Words Center - TRAP, U of A College of Education, 1430 E Second St, Rm 453, Tucson, AZ 85721

This podcast was recorded in the Digital Innovation and Learning Lab (DIALL) in the University of Arizona College of Education.

Producer/Host: Rebecca Ballenger, Worlds of Words Associate Director
Audio Engineer: Alexis Mendoza, U of A Art Major
Coordinator: Vianey Torres, U of A Nursing Major
Digital Collaborator: Melanie Reyes, U of A First-year Student

Today's music was Claim to Fame - The Gray Room by Clark Sims.

For more information on TRAP, visit wowlit.org.

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We Can Promote Global Literature Together!

The Worlds of Words Reading Ambassador program is completely free for participants who receive a book for themselves and a book to share with their school librarian, ELA/English teacher, or other school entity. If you would like to support this program, please make a gift on-line through the University of Arizona Foundation.

Thank you for listening and keep reading!

Transcript

Welcome to WOW Reads, a podcast of World of Words that centers the voices of young people on books written for them. 

Worlds of Words Center of Global Literacies and Literatures is committed to creating an international network of people who share the vision of bringing books and children together, thereby opening windows on the world. We encourage thoughtful dialog around global literature so that children can reflect on their own cultural experiences and connect to the experiences of children around the world.

World of Words Reading Ambassadors engage in a university experience of children's literature within the University of Arizona College of Education. Reading ambassadors learn about literature for young people under the direction of faculty and staff with expertise in children's literature, education, library science, and marketing. 

We respectfully acknowledge the University of Arizona is on the land and territories of indigenous peoples. Today, Arizona is home to 22 federally recognized tribes, with Tucson being home to the O'odham and the Yaqui. Committed to diversity and inclusion, the university strives to build sustainable relationships with sovereign native nations and indigenous communities through education offerings, partnerships, and community service. 

Our theme for the Teen Reading Ambassadors, for this podcast, for this cycle, is Disability Experiences in Children's Literature.

Two of the books we read were "Ringo Dandan" or Red Apple I think, my Japanese is not exactly the best, By Ogawa Tadahiro, and "Flutter Forest" from the Netherlands by Colette Pelt. 

My name is Laine and two other books we read were "The Black Book of Colors" by Menena Cottin and Rosana Faria, and "You Started It" by Jacky Khalilieh.

My name is Avery, and two books we read were "Where You See Yourself" by Claire Forest and "Disability Visibility" edited by Alice Wong. 

My name is Albert, and more books we read were "Darius the Great is Not Okay" by Adib Khorram and "Waking Ben Doldrums" by Heather Smith and Byron Eggenschwiler. 

And finally, one of the last books we read is "Breathe and Count Back from From Ten" by Natalia Sylvester.

And your name is?

Oh, Wren.

Wren! Great. This was an interesting collection of books. The disability experience is just vast, and there is no way that we could really get a good survey of what is available to us. But starting with what we did, what were some of the connections you made? 

Well, I felt really connected to the main character of "Where You See Yourself" because I've dealt with some of the same experiences as her with trying to get accommodations at a school that's, like, difficult to deal with that.

I really felt connected to the main character of "You Started It" because she has really severe anxiety and I also have anxiety and some of the experiences she had throughout the book I connected to. 

I agree with Laine, I also read "You Started It", and I really felt seen in both the main character's relationship with her mom, which is not very healthy and they don't really understand each other, and Axel's (the love interest) relationship with his dad in which the dad doesn't support what he does. So I really connected with that. 

I connected with the character in "Breathe and Count Back from Ten" because her disability doesn't truly define her. She's her own person and her disability isn't her entire personality. I understand that because half of the time I feel defined by my own allergies and scoliosis.

Yeah. So I think that it may be unfair to sort of silo that disability part of the disability experience, but what we really saw in a lot of the books that we looked at was that there is a universality to just being alive on the planet. So regardless of whether you're disabled or non-disabled, there are certain experiences that we all have or desire to have. We read a lot of romances for example. What kinds of connections did you make there? 

Effie felt very nervous about going to prom especially because she had this crush who she really wanted to go with and she was scared to ask him out. I feel like that's a very universal thing because it's like, I'm really excited to go to prom, and yeah.

Effie is a wheelchair user? 

Yes. 

My memory of that book that really stuck out was how all the promposals happened on her elevator, But she wasn't getting the promposals, and they interrupted her ability to get around. So she experienced that on a couple of different levels. for me. 

For me, There's a part in the book where she kind of is worried about how her body is simply because her scars. Plus her parents are very strict and often will scold her for different kind of clothing she wears. Sometimes I have to wear a brace, so sometimes I'm worried I can't wear form fitting clothes because I look like a literal box. I don't want to look like a box because I'm not a box. So just understanding that everybody has little idiosyncrasies and insecurities about their self. 

So is that that character in "Breathe and Count Back from Ten"? 

Yeah, Named Veronica. 

Okay. So was she having surgeries? Was this scar as a result of surgery? 

Yeah, she's had many surgeries for her hip dysplasia. 

And she had a special interest in that, like a goal that she wanted to set, if I'm remembering that correctly.

Yes. Where she lived, there was a mermaid exhibit where people would dress up as mermaids and do underwater shows. She really wanted to do that because she started water therapy and swimming was kind of her safe space, her solace. She wanted to do that, even though her parents did not want her to do that, calling that something she couldn't do or something that only promiscuous girls do.

Yeah. So a lot of non-disabled people also, just like being in a bathing suit is so revealing and you're vulnerable in a lot of ways, so to have that experience and have this goal of being a mermaid in this great, you know, costume. That feels like something we all can sort of connect to, that motor ability.

Was there anything that surprised you as we read all of the books? 

When I read "You Started It" I was really surprised because I expected, the main character, Jamie, to kind of move on around the middle of the book from her ex-boyfriend. But instead of that, she kind of kept herself attached to that. I feel like in the whole of the book, it's really emphasized how her ex-boyfriend was just kind of made her anxiety worse and didn't really help her fully to make it better, he just kind of stuck with whatever she was feeling in the moment. I don't know if that makes sense. I was really surprised that even as she was meeting Axel and getting her anxiety better, she still wanted her ex-boyfriend back. I can also understand the dependency, but I don't know. It's kind of surprising. 

I think at the end of "You Started It" I was very surprised that her dad came back, and all of that happened with her dad, she actually learned that her mother was basically lying to her about what happened with her dad, and about what her dad did. And I was very surprised with that. 

This is more of, like, a pleasant surprise, but, I was very surprised when Effie chose to go to Berkeley over Prospect University because it seemed like she really wanted to go. I was worried she was going to go there instead of to Berkeley, where it clearly seemed like she would have been more happy. But then she chose Berkeley in the end, and I was like, "Oh, thank God." 

Yeah, So that's where you see yourself. Yeah, So when we talked about that particular thing is, you know, she's deciding between a school that is sort of aspirational, but she's going to have to sort of forge that path for accessibility, versus a school that was already accessible. 

I think that's a choice that a lot of us have to make in different contexts, like, we've heard this from a lot of authors I think, that if there's a book out there that you wish that you could read or an experience that you wish you could see in literature, maybe that's the book that you need to write. Avery, I think about you in particular because I think you have a lot of stories that you want to see and you wind up reading a lot of, you know, not traditionally published fiction because you're looking for those stories. Do you can you guys relate to that?

Yeah? I'm getting some head nods. It's a hard thing to do. It's a hard thing to think about, especially at your age when you already have a lot on your plate. When you're in high school, and in her case, she just needs an elevator. She just needs her ramp to not be blocked by people who are making out, right?

Ah yes, the kissing ramp. 

Yeah, yeah. So I agree. I agree that was a hard decision for her. We have not yet talked about "Darius the Great is Not Okay". In that book, Darius has depression and his dad also has depression, but they don't really talk about it a lot in that book really? I mean, Darius definitely gets the sense that he has to sort of manage it. It's okay to take the meds, but he sort of has to make his disability easier for the people around him, for his family, and his dad just wants him to sort of project a level of being okay.

Did you find that in your books, in the books that you read as well? 

Effie, a lot of the a lot of the book is definitely her trying to prove herself to her parents because she wants to go to college out of state and her parents aren't very convinced really to let her go out of state. In the end, she ends up proving that she's able to stand up for herself. 

Do you think they protect her to more than she needs to be protected? 

Not really honestly, because I mean, even for non-disabled children, your child going across the country for college is scary to imagine. 

In "You Started It" as pre-mentioned, Jamie's father left and so when he left, that caused a lot of discord between Jamie and her mother. So, pretty much like half of the book was the relationship with her and her mother getting really, really bad up to a point where they just did not talk to each other at all. Then it was as if the other one didn't exist until Jamie's father came back and everything kind of started to settle down. But I feel like in that book there was definitely the absence of her parents, because Jamie's mom kind of wanted Jamie to figure things out on her own and to get her anxiety under control instead of helping her is what I thought. 

Wren, in "Breathe and Count Back from Ten" you've already talked a little bit about her relationship with her parents. Do you want to elaborate on that in this context? 

Sure. With Veronica's disability, it's impacted her family quite a bit because they actually had to immigrate from her home country of Peru to Florida so she could get better medical treatment. But her parents also had been hiding that her disability is getting worse, and she has necrosis of the tissue in her hip. So sometimes she feels like her parents use her disability a bit to their advantage to keep her more under control so she doesn't go off doing bad stuff, and they don't really want to go into college out of state. But her parents really don't see her just as her disability, they see her as a person, but sometimes she does feel like they're using her disability as a way to keep her under control as their daughter. 

So the books in front of us, I kind of think of them in two categories. There's the portrayal of disability, and that includes the picture book, "Waking Ben Doldrums", which I love. I love that book, it's so great, the idea of how to be inclusive even while honoring that disability. I don't know if somebody wants to talk about what that book is about. But the other part are books that are accessible to people with disabilities. We didn't bring it down but we have "Incredible Dogs" which I forget where it comes from, Spain maybe? That uses the dyslexic font. We have "Flutter Forest" here, and we have this red apple book (Ringo Dandan). Can we talk a little bit about what makes a book accessible? 

A lot of the time having, like you said, the dyslexic font. Braille books are also another way to make books accessible, as it means blind people are able to read them. There's a book that has the plastic pages and the spiral spine so that it's easier to flip the pages without having as much hand dexterity. 

And one of the things that I really like to see with Braille books are that if they're in Braille, which is a code, it's not a language, it can be applied to many languages, but it will have the braille alongside the text. So particularly with the picture books, that means that a sighted person and a non sighted person can read them side by side, which is a lovely way to share books right? Anybody else want to talk about the accessibility of books? 

I think "The Black Book of Colors", it kind of gives sighted people a chance to see the experiences blind people go through. Because the entire book is like fully black, and all you can feel are the different textures on the pages and what it does, the textures on the pages go to the text. 

They compliment the text? 

Yeah, they complement the text. 

Our listeners cant see but she's flipping through the books. It's hard not to play with them. Yeah. Go ahead. 

But I think it's very important to let other people experience what disabilities might be like so that it's easier to make things more accessible for those disabilities.

Another thing that I really love about that book, I'm glad you brought it into the conversation, is how poetically it describes things like color. So, my memory might not be completely accurate, but like with red, it describes it in ways that are sweet like strawberries, but also the way that red feels like something that would sting, like if you cut your knee or your hand or something. It's really interesting to me to think about colors if maybe if you had synesthesia, people who can hear colors, I think that that is probably the closest somebody like me might get to understanding the different ways that people think about color. So that book is, I love that book. Yeah. 

In the book from the Netherlands, what was it called again?

Flutter Forest, but I can't say it, Dwarrelbos? 

In Flutter Forest, the pages are actually scented to smell like what the book is about, or the woodlands. I think that really helps people who have dyslexia, can't form the words, can't see, really just get a feel for the book. 

Like get completely immersed in the forest.

Yeah.

So there are some Autumnal voices in there too, yeah. That's one of the IBBY, The International Board on Books for young people, It's one of their selections for their disability honor books. Then, Red Apple, which I think is Ringo Dandan, That's interesting because if you're low verbal but you're still interested in science just watching this apple rot. Like, your mom might not let you have that on the countertop. What was your reaction to this book when we looked at it? 

I thought that's a great way to show people who may be mute, just don't like talking, or don't know how to communicate well, especially kids, science in how the world works. 

My first thought was honestly "Ew a rotting apple." but after that I was thinking about how that is for accessibility. 

I think science is like that a lot. Like, "Ew, gross. Oh but it's so fascinating." Yeah. 

Like my biology teacher made us watch a video where worm larva was coming out this caterpillar, it was gross. But also like, wow, cool. 

I mean, it's part of the world around us and it's nice to have that invitation for all of us to be able to take those deeper looks. Yeah. Any final thoughts on the books that we read as part of our exploration of the disability experience in K-12 literature? 

I just thought it was really cool, and I got to read "You Started It", which I had previously read before, but I also got to read new books and now I have like five books I need to read about disability at my house. So that's a fun takeaway. 

Great. So since we're increasing our TBR, let's increase somebody else's TBR, pick a book that we read and who would you recommend it to? Think about the title and who you would recommend it for? 

I'd recommend "Disability Visibility", which is a compilation of 17 different essays basically about their life with disability. I think it's good for anyone who wants to learn more about how disabilities affect people's lives and also like wants to learn that there are other people out there with the same symptoms or issues that they have. 

I'd recommend "You Started It" to any teenager who likes romance because it's clean, which is something I really, really appreciate. It also talks about anxiety and parental pressures, which is something I think most teenagers today can relate to. So it's a very relatable, fun book that I really liked. 

You got very excited when we pulled that book out, didn't you? 

I did, I love it so much.

Yes, you were promoting this book before it even came across the rest of our radar.

I would recommend The Black Book of Colors to anybody who wants to learn how to describe a color without even looking at the color. Like, I would have never thought of how to describe a color, but for those who can't see color, I feel like it's a very good book. Or just for anyone who wants to describe colors.

I would recommend breathe and count back from ten to anybody who has this big dream, something that doesn't even seem very logical or attainable, but you're so passionate about it that you just want to do it. Because this book really shows that even if it doesn't work out that just going for it is amazing. I also recommend this book to anybody who wants to learn just a little bit more about Peruvian mythology, because there are some really interesting myths that this book incorporates into it, and anybody who likes that's good romantic subplot. 

Excellent, excellent. 

Well, we have to go and create our Zine now, but before we do, I would like to thank Alexis Mendoza, our sound engineer, I'd like to thank Melanie Reyes, our social media person and videographer, Vianey Torres, who keeps us together administratively, the COE team for our most recent round of training.

We are recording and the University of Arizona College of Education's Digital Innovation and Learning Lab.